Night's approach to graphic movies


Author Topic: Night's approach to graphic movies  (Read 6921 times)

GenPion

  • Unbreakable

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 58
    • Email
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2008, 01:46:26 AM »
I'm new to the forum as well.  After seeing the movie, I had to go online and talk to my friends to see if people were "getting" the movie or not.  Some people seem to absolutely get the movie, some don't. 

In some of the articles I've read, the man himself described the movie as a "B-movie."  The acting, the dialogue, the plot, even the gore is very reminiscent of classic B-movies like "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes."  Betty Buckley's performance in particular was completely over the top! 

It's like he's poking fun at the thought that the environment can attack us.  Remember at the beginning of the movie how the one kid answered "global warming?"  In that kind of joking voice, because (of course) global warming is the pc way of explaining everything that happens nowadays.  The first guy to suggest that it was the plants causing this was kind of a freaky, granola-type that was obsessed with hot dogs - seems like he's kinding of poking fun at environmentalists.

Like all of his movies, this movie has religious undertones as well.  We don't know why things happen.  Many things are unexplainable because God controls it, not man.  If you notice, the last two words of the film are "My God" (but in French).  And, the only man standing in the French park (after everyone else had become disoriented and lost power of speech) spoke those words.  Also notice there are no churches throughout the movie (at least not that I noticed).  Why?  Maybe the people who believed in God and fled to churches to pray survived the "attacks."  Also notice where the attacks happened - in the northeast and then France.  The northeast is more secular than the midwest, and France is more secular than the entire United States.  I think there was also mention of the attacks occuring in California.  These regions are the least religious, coinscidence?

Also the suicide factor - no person who truly believes in God commits suicide because it condemns your soul.  Near the beginning of the movie, there was some statement saying that the toxins reversed a person's self-preservation instinct.  But, it was so much more than that!  Suicide is not lack of self-preservation, but lack of belief in God.  So, say God were to make this happen, would God-fearing people kill themselves?  Or, only people who didn't have faith? 

My friend thought the color theme of the movie was yellow - the mood ring, the flowers in the field, numerous backgrounds.  I think I'd have to see the movie again to get that.  I haven't seen any comments on that, I'm hoping to as more and more people so the movie.



I think (and hope) that your opinion/interpretation is pushing it a bit. To think that Night is suggesting that people are killing themselves in the movie out of lack of faith - well, I just don't buy it.

The movie has a strong focus, like all of his films, on faith. But that doesn't mean he thinks people should be killing themselves or that every individual in the movie that died deserved to die or something like that. That is not how I believe M. Night to be as a person and I completely disagree with that sentiment.

However, I strongly believe the main message we were meant to get from the film is that Faith is Important. Faith in humanity and faith in our environment. If we do not love our planet, or ourselves, then we are esentially killing ourselves and heading on a path of self destruction. That is a very different message for this movie to be sending and ultimately I consider it a positive one that is meant to be hidden, even if only just below the surface it starts to unlayer, under a movie that is classic B-Movie fun with good scares and laughs.

As for Night's approach to graphic movies - I've seen MUCH worse. MUCH, MUCH worse. Which, honestly, is very sad.

Though I don't think I have ever seen a movie where the main focus of the horror/killing is from people visibly being show committing suicide (even if it is triggered by toxins released by the plants). It's this graphic sense of direction and story that will make it hard for a lot of people to even watch this movie.

DILinator

  • The Happening

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 211
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2008, 11:50:40 AM »
Also the suicide factor - no person who truly believes in God commits suicide because it condemns your soul.  Near the beginning of the movie, there was some statement saying that the toxins reversed a person's self-preservation instinct.  But, it was so much more than that!  Suicide is not lack of self-preservation, but lack of belief in God.  So, say God were to make this happen, would God-fearing people kill themselves?  Or, only people who didn't have faith?

I agree with a lot of your post, but not this part here.  While suicide in real life is certainly not good, I do not believe that it "condemns your soul".  Christians can and at times do commit suicide.  I think that it shows that they have lost their faith, at least momentarily, but that doesn't mean their soul is condemned.  I know some denominations and sects teach that, but I haven't found anything biblically to support that argument.  Suicide is ultimately an act of supreme selfishness, but not a definitive sign of a lack of belief in God. 

Like I said, I agree with most of what you said, but not that bit there about suicide.
"See what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs, sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky?"

I'm a "Signs" person.

Namaste

  • Futuristic (After Earth)

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3217
  • Personal Text
    The divine in me bows before the divine in you.
    • myspace
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2008, 11:55:54 AM »
Well-put, DILinator.
See the villain's larger eyes insinuating a just-off-normal perspective on how they see the world? I see signs Lucius Hunt; just not as you see dead people. I am so very happy we saw..each other, and no I will not tell you what color love is. Stop asking.

mamasan

  • Guest
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2008, 01:55:40 PM »
Suicide is ultimately an act of supreme selfishness,  ...

I would have to disagree with you here, DIlinator. I think suicide is an act caused by pain and suffering, not selfishness. Generally, suicide stems from an illness (depression), so to pass judgement on a person who commits suicide is to pass judgement on every person who dies from an illness. Were the people in The Happening who committed suicide supremely selfish? No, they were sick. They were affected by something they had no control over and did not understand. The film shows that scientists and experts did what they could to help people protect themselves, but there was only so much they could do. I don't recall any of the medical experts ever intimating that the victims were selfish. Perhaps, among the other themes of the movie, MNS is suggesting a more scientific and compassionate approach to treating mental illness.

Namaste

  • Futuristic (After Earth)

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3217
  • Personal Text
    The divine in me bows before the divine in you.
    • myspace
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2008, 02:53:37 PM »
Suicide is not caused by anything other than a desire to escape an unpleasant circumstance. It is an act focused only on immediate self-gratification. It is not logical. It screams to the world "I will offer you nothing more. If I can't have things the way I want them, then I won't live at all. I will let every piece of knowledge and experience in me, every future opportunity, every precious second I could have lived go to waste." I've been there, believe me. The moment I realized how illogical it all was..how uneconomical..how selfish..from one minute to the next my perspective turned 180 degrees.

"When one has a breath left, a minute of time, one kind word to say to someone who needs it, a mind with which to solve problems and hands with which to work, he is invaluable." - me

"To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence." -Friedrich Nietzsche
See the villain's larger eyes insinuating a just-off-normal perspective on how they see the world? I see signs Lucius Hunt; just not as you see dead people. I am so very happy we saw..each other, and no I will not tell you what color love is. Stop asking.

mamasan

  • Guest
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2008, 03:19:05 PM »
Suicide is not caused by anything other than a desire to escape an unpleasant circumstance. It is an act focused only on immediate self-gratification. It is not logical. It screams to the world "I will offer you nothing more. If I can't have things the way I want them, then I won't live at all. I will let every piece of knowledge and experience in me, every future opportunity, every precious second I could have lived go to waste." I've been there, believe me. The moment I realized how illogical it all was..how uneconomical..how selfish..from one minute to the next my perspective turned 180 degrees.

"When one has a breath left, a minute of time, one kind word to say to someone who needs it, a mind with which to solve problems and hands with which to work, he is invaluable." - me

"To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Lol! If suicide were caused only by the desire to escape an unpleasant circumstance, then women would commit suicide in droves every bikini season.  :D

Seriously, though, I believe suicide generally is an escape from pain, usually caused by depression, psychosis, schizophrenia, etc.-- i.e., an illness.  So I disagree with you. When you touch something that is fiery hot, your instinct is to remove your hand and end the pain as quickly as possible with no thought whatsoever as to the logic. I'm not saying I think suicide is justifiable or to be glorified; I'm simply saying people who attempt or commit suicide should not be demonized. They are sick and need help. Pretty straightforward. No passing of judgement required.

If you've been there and were able to see the illogic, the waste, etc., then you fortunately were not as sick, or were not sick in the same way as someone who followed through. Or you obtained the health care you needed, which is great. If only everyone in that situation were so fortunate ...

Namaste

  • Futuristic (After Earth)

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3217
  • Personal Text
    The divine in me bows before the divine in you.
    • myspace
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2008, 03:27:11 PM »
well pain and depression are unpleasant circumstances, so if people commit suicide to escape those, then what i said was right.

and just because suicide is A WAY to escape unpleasant circumstances doesnt mean everyone will do it every time they feel uncomfortable.
See the villain's larger eyes insinuating a just-off-normal perspective on how they see the world? I see signs Lucius Hunt; just not as you see dead people. I am so very happy we saw..each other, and no I will not tell you what color love is. Stop asking.

DILinator

  • The Happening

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 211
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2008, 03:32:59 PM »
Suicide is ultimately an act of supreme selfishness,  ...

I would have to disagree with you here, DIlinator. I think suicide is an act caused by pain and suffering, not selfishness. Generally, suicide stems from an illness (depression), so to pass judgement on a person who commits suicide is to pass judgement on every person who dies from an illness. Were the people in The Happening who committed suicide supremely selfish? No, they were sick. They were affected by something they had no control over and did not understand. The film shows that scientists and experts did what they could to help people protect themselves, but there was only so much they could do. I don't recall any of the medical experts ever intimating that the victims were selfish. Perhaps, among the other themes of the movie, MNS is suggesting a more scientific and compassionate approach to treating mental illness.

Given that my profession is a Mental Health Worker, and I work everyday with people with mental illness, and those who are dealing with suicidality, I think I understand a bit about them.  However, whether it's clinically "politically correct" or not to think this way, the fact remains that a person, regardless of the surrounding circumstances, is thinking only of himself when committing suicide, and it is therefore a selfish act.  I understand that there are a lot of things that bring a person to that point, I understand more than most people from working intensely with people with mental illness every day.  But in the end, it boils down to being a selfish act.  I understand if you dont view it that way, as I know many others in my profession do not, and like to eliminate all self-responsibility from the person for their actions.  However, that's not how I see it, and I think a real analysis of the thought process behind it, and the motives for doing it, would back that up.  

As for suicide in the movie, obviously the reasoning behind it was the chemical imbalance brought about by the toxin in the brain.  However, a) no such toxin has ever been found to exist, so basically it's creating something not present in the real world we live in, and b) this all assumes that all mental illness is simply caused by a chemical imbalance, and there's nothing the people battling with it can do about it.  I do not believe that, and while there may be some chemical imbalances, people still are responsible for their actions.  It's not a popular belief amongst the Mental Health Community, but I've certainly found it to be the case, and I'm no less compassionate towards those I work with than any of my co-workers who believe as you are espousing.  I believe we can all can struggle with things like depression and suicidality, and it's not limited to those with a "chemical imbalance".  
"See what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs, sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky?"

I'm a "Signs" person.

mamasan

  • Guest
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2008, 03:34:03 PM »
well pain and depression are unpleasant circumstances, so if people commit suicide to escape those, then what i said was right.

and just because suicide is A WAY to escape unpleasant circumstances doesnt mean everyone will do it every time they feel uncomfortable.

Perhaps we're simply using different language. But your comment "It is an act focused only on immediate self-gratification" struck me as judgmental, because self-gratification involves pleasure, and I don't think ending pain is the same as experiencing pleasure. I tend to think of self-gratification as something fun, you know, like eating ice cream, going on roller coasters and, er, other things.

mamasan

  • Guest
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2008, 03:57:29 PM »

As for suicide in the movie, obviously the reasoning behind it was the chemical imbalance brought about by the toxin in the brain.  However, a) no such toxin has ever been found to exist, so basically it's creating something not present in the real world we live in, and b) this all assumes that all mental illness is simply caused by a chemical imbalance, and there's nothing the people battling with it can do about it.  I do not believe that, and while there may be some chemical imbalances, people still are responsible for their actions.  It's not a popular belief amongst the Mental Health Community, but I've certainly found it to be the case, and I'm no less compassionate towards those I work with than any of my co-workers who believe as you are espousing.  I believe we can all can struggle with things like depression and suicidality, and it's not limited to those with a "chemical imbalance".  

Boy, you're not kidding when you say your views are not popular in the Mental Health Community! (And political correctness has nothing to do with it, so please, I beg you, don't fly that flag or take that cop out.) Chemical imbalance and altered brain chemistry are incredibly important when dealing with mental health in the real world. (I realize there isn't a toxin that causes suicide. Doy! ;)) Trauma, for instance, has clearly been shown to cause changes in brain structure and function.

I think it does a tremendous disservice to the mentally ill, the ones who are genuinely suicidal, to ignore the science that has developed with regard to studying brain chemistry. Perhaps if you made a distinction between patients who are clinically depressed and suicidal, and those who suffer 'only' from suicide ideation or a glum world view, your view wouldn't sound so harsh. Wanting to commit suicide and thinking about it, are vastly different from actually doing it. Brain function has been found to be very different in people who attempt suicide than in those who don't. Surely you owe it to your patients to stay current with this type of information?

It makes me so frustrated that because of the stigma of mental illness--the fact that the mentally ill are judged as being somehow irresponsible or weak-minded--health care for mental illness and the study of the brain and mental illness lags so far behind everything else. I sometimes think the U.S. is in the dark ages with regard to the study of mental illness. Having 'the blues' and having clinical depression are vastly different.

But, oh well; relatively few people commit suicide outside of MNS films, so no biggie, eh? [Tone intended to reflect mild sarcasm and good-natured disagreement, not malice! ;)]

And now back to our film!  :D

« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 04:00:48 PM by mamasan »

DILinator

  • The Happening

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 211
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2008, 04:06:18 PM »
It makes me so frustrated that because of the stigma of mental illness--the fact that the mentally ill are judged as being somehow irresponsible or weak-minded--health care for mental illness and the study of the brain and mental illness lags so far behind everything else. I sometimes think the U.S. is in the dark ages with regard to the study of mental illness. Having 'the blues' and having clinical depression are vastly different.

Believe me, I am not one for stigma, and being somebody "in the trenches" of the Mental Health field, I've seen it all.  However, I just don't believe that we can write off behaviors that people make in their lives strictly to chemical imbalances, and throw a ton of medicine at them.  Honestly, the Mental Health industry is really set up to keep people "prisoner" to the system (and keep the money flowing in), and not really give people freedom from their illness.  I see far too much of this, and as somebody who is trying to help people, that is frustrating to run up against.  I think if we are to teach people to have more accountability for their actions, and not always say "it's an illness and a chemical imbalance and there's nothing you can do about it", I think people would be far better off. 

Like I said before though, I know I'm a maverick in the field as far as my views are concerned, and I accept that.  However, the people I work with know I care about them, and I don't think anybody who has seen me in action can question my compassion. 
"See what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs, sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky?"

I'm a "Signs" person.

mamasan

  • Guest
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2008, 04:22:25 PM »
It makes me so frustrated that because of the stigma of mental illness--the fact that the mentally ill are judged as being somehow irresponsible or weak-minded--health care for mental illness and the study of the brain and mental illness lags so far behind everything else. I sometimes think the U.S. is in the dark ages with regard to the study of mental illness. Having 'the blues' and having clinical depression are vastly different.

Believe me, I am not one for stigma, and being somebody "in the trenches" of the Mental Health field, I've seen it all.  However, I just don't believe that we can write off behaviors that people make in their lives strictly to chemical imbalances, and throw a ton of medicine at them.  Honestly, the Mental Health industry is really set up to keep people "prisoner" to the system (and keep the money flowing in), and not really give people freedom from their illness.  I see far too much of this, and as somebody who is trying to help people, that is frustrating to run up against.  I think if we are to teach people to have more accountability for their actions, and not always say "it's an illness and a chemical imbalance and there's nothing you can do about it", I think people would be far better off. 

Like I said before though, I know I'm a maverick in the field as far as my views are concerned, and I accept that.  However, the people I work with know I care about them, and I don't think anybody who has seen me in action can question my compassion. 

I'm not a big fan of the whole lifelong dependence on medication thing, either, unless, of course, it helps keep a person alive and functioning. I simply don't know how you can teach a person who is ravaged by schizophrenia, psychosis, depression or post-traumatic stress disorder to be more accountable for their actions and, viola, they are cured. These people very often are struggling to survive one minute at a time. I think a mixture of therapy and medication often is necessary for these types of severe cases--not personal accountability, which I think would fall into the therapy-alone category, if I'm interpreting your comments correctly. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you would not blow off medication for patients who are borderline when it comes to possibly harming themselves or others.

Now, can we talk about the hot dog guy? I am very intrigued that the actor's name is "Frank."  :D ;D

DILinator

  • The Happening

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 211
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2008, 08:23:16 AM »
And I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you would not blow off medication for patients who are borderline when it comes to possibly harming themselves or others.

Obviously not, and I do think medication can be helpful at times.  However, there is too much overdependance on it, and on the system, and not enough looking at what a person can do themselves to overcome their problems.  That's how I see it at least. 

As for the hot dog guy, it is a rather funny coincidence, if that's all it is.  But if there's something Night has taught us through Signs, it's that he believes there are no coincidences, so that tells me his movies are very intentional.  Hmmm....  ;)
"See what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs, sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky?"

I'm a "Signs" person.

Mr_Glass.1

  • Futuristic (After Earth)

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2942
    • Email
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2008, 02:50:33 PM »
I liked the hot dog guy, I also think him and his wife survived.  Do you like hot dogs?
I see the world Lucius Hunt, just not the way you see it.


Ivy Walker to Lucius Hunt in The Village

mamasan

  • Guest
Re: Night's approach to graphic movies
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2008, 05:33:57 PM »
I liked the hot dog guy, I also think him and his wife survived.  Do you like hot dogs?

I'm a vegetarian.  :D   But I loved the hot dog guy! He was freaky, and so are a lot of normal people, so he seemed like 'just folks,' you know what I mean?