Is the film a trick?


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ALF

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Is the film a trick?
« on: July 11, 2008, 04:24:49 AM »
Hi again
after talking with Erin about the most disappointing Night's film for me, I wrote there that my selection was The sixth sense, and I promised to explain why.
I loved the film the first time I saw it, because I discovered a great director and I liked how he played with the story to surprise us. I was sure since that moment that he wouldn't disappoint me, and actually he hasn't, because this one is the only one I don't like so much.

I can't see more times this movie, because each time I see it as a trick. The main concept is this: Doctor Malcolm is dead since the beginning, but he does'nt know it, and that's what we discover at the end, being surprised because we had no idea about it, but....I can't understand why the character doesn't realize he's dead. Doesn't he realize that no one see him,? When he take a bus, when he goes to the restaurant, when no one in the world except the child talk to him.

I think it's a trick because the film shows us just the parts when we can't think about he's dead. For example, the doctor visits the child, but we don't see how he talks with her mother about the child. Who calls him to attend the child? try to see again the movie paying attention in each scene, and you'll discover that the whole film has strategic cuts to not show us those moments when we obviously would think that something's happening.

When I studied cinema, we studied a concept called "elipsis", whic means a cut in the story. When a character goes to the bathroom, we doesn't see what he does, because it's not necesary and it would be a lose of time. That's an "elipsis", and all the movies have them. Otherwise, when we see the characteer in tha bathroom normaly is because there will happen something important for the story. What Shyamalan has done in this movie is cut those moments, in order to don't let us tknow that the character is dead.

That's why I think the movie is a trick, and because of this this film is in my last position on my M.Night's films list. I hope you understand what I mean, maybe you don't agree, that's not a problem, but I hope to have explained well this particular point of view of this movie.
Dame Nature moves in Strange Ways

Erin

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2008, 07:04:38 AM »
Hi ALF ! I'm quite famous by now ! I'm joking ! I understand what you mean, but I don"t see this movie in this way. I think I have some answers for you. You say there is a problem when Malcolm is in the bus but he is invisible , no one can see him. The little boy is considered as mad by other ones. So People don"t pay any attention about that. You say : who calls him to attend the child in the scene with the doctor but no one calls him. He 's just there because he is obsessed by this child. It's the same thing when he came at school ( when the child see people who had been hung). He is preoccupied by the child that he forgets his own life, his wife. And M Night Shyamalan tries to make us believe that she is very angry against him because he doesn't care so much of her. Then, Did you notice that in the scene at the restaurant, Bruce Willis sat down on a chair . He doesn"t move it. Because the director didn't want that people notice some strange facts.  Cole helped him to understand what happened to him by hos knowledge of dead people. But Cole said to Malcolm : " I see dead people" They don't know they are dead, they can"t see them each other. So how Malcolm can suppose he is dead ? He can"t. He realized it at the end cos he has got the elements to understand the truth. I 'm sorry if there are some mistakes but english isn't my mother tongue.

ALF

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2008, 07:50:53 AM »
Thanks for your post Erin, and for giving some answers.
I know what you mean, and I don't discuss about the beauty of this film, I really liked it, but for me it's just impossible that a ghost doesn't realize that he's a ghost. Put yourself in the place of a ghost: you wake up one day and don't know you're dead, what would you do? Yo'd continue your normal life, untill you'd realize that something's wrong, because no one talks to you and people don't see you. Maybe your wife could be angry with you and doesn't want to talk to you, but what about the others?

The trick is that the moments when it could be obvious that he's a ghost are cut, in order to surprise us and also the man, but it has no sense for me that a ghost doesn't realizae he's a ghost.
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Erin

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2008, 07:55:30 AM »
I don"t know I've never been a ghost !  ;) but I think the story is quite possible cos the child who is the only one to know how ghosts are, said " they don"t know they are dead" this is the key ! cos adults dont belive in the ghosts. Some believe in God not in ghosts coming back on earth . I really like the fact he didn't know he is dead cos it just like in philosophy, is the world around me really existing ? Am I existing ? " Yes I am cos I thinking " Cogito ergo sum Descartes said. You know ?

manojrules

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2008, 11:57:06 PM »
Well, no, shyamalan did not cut out these scenes. like you said, the scenes not shown are things as simple as going to the bathroom, theyre just regular life routines. Cole tells Malcolm, "I see dead people. I see them all the time. They don't know they're dead, they only see what they want to see."
and i noticed the scene with him and cole's mother, too. notice when it comes in, theyre staring at each other, then cole walks in and they look at him, cole talks but looks at malcolm strangely. then when they talk, cole looks to make sure his mother is not watching before nodding to malcolm and when he eventually does talk to him in that scene, he talks softly, in a bit more than a whisper, enough so his mother does not hear.

But anyways, when it comes in and malcolm and cole's mom are staring at each other, i think i know what happened before. Cole's mom is already going through a tough time, with cole, with her jobs, and she states while talking about the bumblebee pendent, "I dont know if you've noticed, but our family isn't exactly doing so well." so Malcolm tells her his concerns about maybe cole is upset about the divorce or his comments like that, and as cole's mom awaits for cole to come home, she may sigh while thinking about things, maybe her two jobs, and malcolm takes it as a responce, but really it's only coincidental. Shyamalan brilliantly constructed everything to fit into a flawless puzzle if you really look into it.

Erin

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 05:22:33 AM »
Well, no, shyamalan did not cut out these scenes. like you said, the scenes not shown are things as simple as going to the bathroom, theyre just regular life routines. Cole tells Malcolm, "I see dead people. I see them all the time. They don't know they're dead, they only see what they want to see."
and i noticed the scene with him and cole's mother, too. notice when it comes in, theyre staring at each other, then cole walks in and they look at him, cole talks but looks at malcolm strangely. then when they talk, cole looks to make sure his mother is not watching before nodding to malcolm and when he eventually does talk to him in that scene, he talks softly, in a bit more than a whisper, enough so his mother does not hear.

But anyways, when it comes in and malcolm and cole's mom are staring at each other, i think i know what happened before. Cole's mom is already going through a tough time, with cole, with her jobs, and she states while talking about the bumblebee pendent, "I dont know if you've noticed, but our family isn't exactly doing so well." so Malcolm tells her his concerns about maybe cole is upset about the divorce or his comments like that, and as cole's mom awaits for cole to come home, she may sigh while thinking about things, maybe her two jobs, and malcolm takes it as a responce, but really it's only coincidental. Shyamalan brilliantly constructed everything to fit into a flawless puzzle if you really look into it.

This is exactly what I wanted to say :)

Erik

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 11:18:54 AM »
The only scenes where Malcome does something are in the movie. Like Cole said:
"They only see what they want to see."
This could mean that Malcome isn't walking around somewhere in the time we don't see him in the movie. He could be at home, thinking he's asleep. He could be walking through the city and not noticing he's there untill he's back with Cole. He really wants to help him, so Cole is something he wants to see. All the other things could have been blocked memories, he doesn't want to see himself walking through Philidelphia, he doesn't want to know he's asleep. He wants to know what's going on with Cole.

The movie isn't really giving much clues about this, but this is what I think.
We can breath in space,
they just don't want us to escape...

ALF

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2008, 12:58:04 PM »
WOW!!!!
Thanks for giving your opinions, I really hadn't thought that much about all these things, and I should say that I agree with you in some of the things you've said. I'll take a new look to the film after giving new conclusions, and I'll put concret examples about the tricks I think there are.

I like to see how you go deep inside the movie to extract all these meanings and opinions about Shyamalan's movies. That's why each day that is past after I saw The Happening I like it more, because I'm sure I (we) will discover lots of meanings in that movie.

Maybe Doctor Malcolm does'nt realize he's dead because he has no time or is'nt in the right moment to think about it, but I still have my doubts  ;D, so better not to close this post, I hope the others will give us their opinions, and I also will give mine after re-watching the movie thinking about this new information you've given to me.
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Erin

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2008, 02:53:18 PM »
We do our job of fan !  :)

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2008, 03:38:48 PM »
Yeah, I think malcom's very life has "strategic cuts" and therefore he never has to do anything like take the bus..he just shows up where he wants to be, but he doesnt know how he got there or even care. (although I think he did say something in the movie about some confusion as to why he was doing what he was doing or was where he was) And cole's mom didnt call him..it's just a trick that makes it look like she did when he is sitting in their house when cole arrives. It's really quite genius, this "trick" of a movie once you know the outcome.
See the villain's larger eyes insinuating a just-off-normal perspective on how they see the world? I see signs Lucius Hunt; just not as you see dead people. I am so very happy we saw..each other, and no I will not tell you what color love is. Stop asking.

Erik

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2008, 03:46:11 PM »
I found another thing: Malcome said in the restaurant to Anne:
I keep losing track of time!
This could be the sign that proves my theory.
We can breath in space,
they just don't want us to escape...

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2008, 03:57:14 PM »
Yes! that is one of the scenes i was thinking about..that he's disoriented.
See the villain's larger eyes insinuating a just-off-normal perspective on how they see the world? I see signs Lucius Hunt; just not as you see dead people. I am so very happy we saw..each other, and no I will not tell you what color love is. Stop asking.

ALF

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2008, 02:27:28 AM »
You mean he lives in some kind of hypnotic state during the time he's not with Cole? I t could be, yes. Maybe the time he's not with Cole he's in a deep dream, sleeping and reaming with he's life, without realizing he's dead.
But....what about Cole? He's supposed to recognize ghosts, or dead peopl, like he says. What happens with him when Doctor Malcolm is around? He does'nt realize his doctor is one of those "ghosts"? Doesn't he talk with his moteher about his therapy? If he did, his mother would discover that his son talks with an inveted person, so also those p?ssible moments are cut.

I'm looking forward to watch the film again and discuss about these things
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Erin

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2008, 05:38:00 AM »
I've thought about that and I think Cole doesn't know he's dead cos he doesn't bear any sign of his death , he is always wearing a long coat, hidding his wound ( is it the right word or is it injury) ?. But Maybe Cole feels Malcom is dead because the way he looked at him when he says " they don"'t know they 're dead"  is very strange, he is afraid but he seems to confess. I think he feels it but has no proof to be sure. Actually, Malcom is just like the other ghosts Cole will help. This is just my view...  :)

ALF

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Re: Is the film a trick?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2008, 06:51:33 AM »
Yes, I thought so the first time. Maybe Cole suspects something, but the way his doctor aproach top him is dfferent as the other ghosts, he doesn't scare the boy, he wants to help him with the other ghosts, and so the boy gives more confidence to this "no official ghost". I think in the movie there's an evolution in the relation between the boy and the doctor, and it becomes closer when we arrive to the end. Doctor Malcolm helps the boy to deal with his problem, and so the boy does with him, he helps the doctor to discover what he actually is.
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